Comments on Athanasius Contra Mundum: The dangers of Theology of the Body, part I

Based on a two-year study of John Paul II’s Theol...

2009-07-16T05:50:26.949-07:00

Based on a two-year study of John Paul II’s Theology of the Body (ww.newengelpublishing.com), I reached the following conclusions:
• TOB, which was an invention of Karol Józef Wojtyla, known to history as Pope John Paul II, has no foundation in Scripture or Tradition.
• TOB presents a novel interpretation of the essential nature of Original Sin which is not in accord with the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church.
• In TOB we find the sexualization of Scripture, both the Old and New Testament, and the spiritualization of sex in line with the Gnostic and Manichean traditions. Indeed, to the extent that the Theology of the Body has rejected the traditional doctrine of the Church on marriage which holds that the primary end of marriage is procreation and the education of children, and to the extent that it has emphasized the relational and the transcendent aspects of conjugal sex at the expense of procreation, it can be rightly described as a new form of Manichaeism.
• TOB denies a fundamental premise of the Faith – the fragility of human nature and its tendency towards sin, which is confirmed by the entire history of mankind and everyone's individual experience.
• TOB is not Catholic because it promotes the sensuous over the spiritual.

The Catholic antidote to TOB is provided by Saint Paul in 1 Cor. 9:27; 1 Cor. 11:32; and Heb. 12:6.

Randy Engel, author
“John Paul II and the Theology of the Body – A Study in Modernism”

The new encyclical is out, and it deals with the s...

2009-07-07T20:54:13.075-07:00

The new encyclical is out, and it deals with the social teachings of the Church and the current global crisis. I would be interested in what you think.

Let's just say I'm not all that impressed with it. I got up very early in the morning to read it and was disappointed. The Tradition is so full of so much on this topic, and while there are over 100 quotes from Paul VI and JPII there is one each for Leo XIII, Pius XI and St. Thomas, all of whom helped form this subject. St. Thomas who brought to the fore Aristotle's teaching on subsidiarity, and Leo and Pius who wrote the book on this subject in the modern context. To boot, they were only quoted where Vatican II quoted them.

Even more than that, there isn't a ton of substance here. There are some good elements embodying the Church's thought against free market thinking, there is little direction and the whole thing reads very rough. That is at least my initial thought. I will have a bit on it in a few days, I need to be able to step away and come back to it and seriously parse it.

One conference he had a participant stand up and s...

2009-07-07T12:11:48.730-07:00

One conference he had a participant stand up and say "Look at so and so's body, its good!". This part of your article for some reason reminds me of a quote from St. John Chrysostom instruction to women about dress when in the fourth century he declared:
"You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. ... When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride." We have a mutual friend through Fr. Romanoski who went to Franciscan U at the same time you did and I wonder if this was the same time he saw West? If it was the same time he saw West, if you would have stayed a little longer you would have heard him ask everyone to look down at the ground. Then you would have heard him ask all the people their guilty of the sin of self abuse to raise their hands so he could pray over them. My friend told me that when one of the guys with his hand up began convulsing and West started yelling begone Satan, he made a beeline for the door! Does any of this sound familiar? I already sent this post once and it hasn't come up yet, so I wasn't sure if I posted it right or if you thought it to graphic. Athanasius76

Off topic: The new encyclical is out, and it deal...

2009-07-07T09:29:39.303-07:00

Off topic:

The new encyclical is out, and it deals with the social teachings of the Church and the current global crisis. I would be interested in what you think.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html

I think the Q.E.D on this whole issue of the perve...

2009-07-06T17:55:09.576-07:00

I think the Q.E.D on this whole issue of the pervert West is the fact that he can approve a consummated sin of lust against nature, one which is intrinsically evil and calls on heaven for revenge, so long as it is within the context of marriage and the act ends naturally.

I have a full treatment of this with translations from the scholastics in part II.

So you've mentioned what is wrong with Chris West's interpretation of Theology of the Body, but you failed to say why Theology of the Body itself is flawed.

Note, part I, that means there are more parts. I deal with this later, but principally the flaw in theology of the body is that it is based on phenomenology, which is a philosophical expression of the modernist heresy where truth begins in the individual.

Excellent. I'm so happy someone smarter than me w...

2009-07-06T16:25:11.014-07:00

Excellent. I'm so happy someone smarter than me wrote about this. Thanks!

I think the Q.E.D on this whole issue of the perve...

2009-07-06T11:57:25.103-07:00

So you've mentioned what is wrong with Chris West'...

2009-07-06T11:14:57.618-07:00

So you've mentioned what is wrong with Chris West's interpretation of Theology of the Body, but you failed to say why Theology of the Body itself is flawed.

To a comment about women and veil in church. Not o...

2009-07-06T08:59:11.387-07:00

To a comment about women and veil in church. Not only does it keep men not distracted, it keeps women away from distraction. I can attest to that. God needs to keep us focused on the Mass, doesn't he?
I love all the arguments about wearing the veil. No it doesn't make me holier, and I don't think I am holier, I just need to be holier. I even had someone said that I don't look good with a veil (she did not wear one). I thought it was actually the best argument for wearing a veil!

We have to wonder why Bl. John XXIII - and many sa...

2009-07-06T08:48:31.912-07:00

We have to wonder why Bl. John XXIII - and many saints - kept his eyes down while on the streets of Rome.
Thank you for this great article. I still wonder why we have a 2000 year old Church but most Catholics read only texts from the past 40 years? Who lately has been teaching about wisdom? And modesty? Are they "taboos"?

I'm so glad you've put your finger on what put me ...

2009-07-05T04:24:50.996-07:00

I'm so glad you've put your finger on what put me off when I heard West speak - forgive me, but as an Australian I assumed in charity he was speaking in a manner that might just perhaps be appropriate over in the U.S.A., but sounded horribly crass and vulgar here. His talks were really cringe-worthy: as you point out, it is not the restatement in them of traditional Catholic thought on marriage and related topics, but the over the top presentation that is really too much! Lines such as (forgive me for quoting these, delete these if you feel them inappropriate to even include) "John Paul II takes us behind the fig leaves" and "Husbands, love your wive's stretch marks" were just revolting.

The particular story given by Christopher West tha...

2009-07-04T16:01:24.332-07:00

The particular story given by Christopher West that Anonymous alludes to is actually that of the conversion of St. Pelagia... warped and twisted. Here is the actual story:

Two bishops were standing somewhere - perhaps having just left a church, I forget - and caught sight of a beautiful prostitute. The one bishop averted his eyes. The other bishop, by the name of Nonnus, did not. The first bishop chastized the second bishop for committing sexual sin: in fact, the second was not. He was weeping because this beautiful prostitute was destroying herself. She saw his look, and caught the difference between it and those of the lewd persuasion, ended up converting, and is now known as St. Pelagia.

A similar, but importantly different, story. Not necessarily correct, however. See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11601d.htm

And if it was only about the hair distracting men ...

2009-07-04T15:37:31.993-07:00

And if it was only about the hair distracting men who are lusting over it, then there would be no reason for women with ugly hair, or eldery women with white hair that is cristy, to cover their heads...

It is not even about lust. Hair draws attention, particularly when it is beautiful. I've even seen women who weren't all that attractive who I noticed specifically because their hair was very nice.

It is also a submission deal, but to a much lesser extent. The bigger issue is modesty, because of the natural inclinations of most men to notice beautiful hair. St. Paul taught this under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and that trumps whatever some post-Vatican II committee has declare don the subject. :D

That is a very good read and extremely well writte...

2009-07-04T14:09:22.024-07:00

That is a very good read and extremely well written! I have always shied away from listeneing to or reading Christopher West: I guess my gut feeling was correct.

By the way, you have an award over at my blog - not sure if you do awards - but here is the link

http://paramedicgoldengirl.blogspot.com/2009/06/two-are-better-then-one.html

I thought women covering their hair was a submissi...

2009-07-04T13:01:10.439-07:00

I thought women covering their hair was a submission thing...guys really find hair alluring? What is so alluring about hair? And if it was only about the hair distracting men who are lusting over it, then there would be no reason for women with ugly hair, or eldery women with white hair that is cristy, to cover their heads...

Just posting to second Rob, and Thank Athanasius o...

2009-07-04T09:34:22.273-07:00

Just posting to second Rob, and Thank Athanasius on behalf of all trads marooned in NO parishes.

Thank you for this post and all your others. They...

2009-07-03T18:50:04.523-07:00

Thank you for this post and all your others. They are a great help to someone like me, who has little to no access to Tradition outside the web.

From my personal experience I can say that women c...

2009-07-03T14:02:32.857-07:00

From my personal experience I can say that women covering their hair in the church do a great favour to all the men present. It's a tremendous help for men who wish to be attentive during Mass. Otherwise eyes just keep wandering on their own.

Anyway, well written. Post more often, I like read...

2009-07-03T13:07:56.763-07:00

Anyway, well written. Post more often, I like reading your articles.

For that I need more time, or a job that pays more and requires less of me.

Very well written my friend. I think a lot of coll...

2009-07-03T12:50:49.137-07:00

Very well written my friend. I think a lot of college students have no idea, nor do they care about being modest in speech or dress or in any particular form of virtue mentioned in the article. I knew a lot of students at Ave Maria who read theology of the body, and 'm not capitalizing it, and they enjoyed it. I thought, even then when I had never heard of Christopher West, that something sounded remotely or indirectly sinful about it, so I never read it. I think one of the roommates I had in the pre-theologate program there read it eventually, now he is engaged, which I thought was somewhat coincidental, since he acted against something under obedience. So the rotten fruits bore by his perverted theology seem to have sewn some seeds, although I cannot judge my friend, it would seem too coincidental.

Anyway, well written. Post more often, I like reading your articles.

I was present at a conference during which Christo...

2009-07-03T12:10:31.027-07:00

I was present at a conference during which Christopher West and a few of his friends were speaking, and he gave an example of "true" Christian purity that was just totally off the wall. His example went something like this: two holy priests were walking down a street when a provocatively dressed prostitute ambled suggestively past them. One priest glanced away at the wall with the exclamation to his brother priest, "Cover your eyes Father!", but to his confusion, the other priest only looked at the prostitute and kept on going. When the priest who had covered his eyes asked why the other had not, the other responded to the effect that he had reached a certain level of purity as to where he was un-affected by impurity, and only saw the beautiful soul inside the prostitute that was being damaged. This was presented as the way we should all act, and the priest who had covered his eyes was presented as a weakling who had not the courage to attain perfect purity.

Now, I'm sure Christ had that level of perfect purity, but for us otherwise sinful men, the Church has provided us the guidelines of which you touched on, custody of the eyes, the mind, mastering the passions, etc.

There are so many saints, including the great St. Francis of Assisi and St. Gerard of Majella, who never even so much as looked a woman in the face! If they, obviously very close to Christ's perfection in virtue, chose to act thus to save their souls, shouldn't we do likewise?

This example of West's stuck out to me for years, because it plainly confused me (I was at a crossroads in my Catholic faith, finding Tradition and looking for traditional teaching). I was confused because I study old English tales of chivalry and such, as a hobby, and there is one particular tale that stood out in opposition to West's teaching. There was a holy and pure knight (nothing to do with the round table, this tale was just one of those floating ones that has no deeper connections), who had been retained by a lady of high standing for a bodyguard, as was the custom. Because she dressed so immodestly, however, he was accustomed to never look her in the face. When she demanded one day that he look at her when they spoke, he replied, "My lady, if you wish me to behold the beauty of your face, then you must cover all else that is beautiful, for otherwise, I shall continue to admire the ground beneath your feet" She took the hint, but notice that this knight (even though probably a fictional character, nevertheless reflected a mindset that was taught in those times) didn't notice that the lady's body was beautiful, as Christopher West suggests we should do by looking and admiring. No, instead, he did her beauty credit by admitting it was so beautiful that he ought not to look!

The Traditional teachings of the church and the ways people lived them are so much holier and better than any modern ideas out there, I'm sorry that more people do not turn to historical examples of purity. It seems that they prefer the new and novel, even though it is wrong.

Earl Thomas

Smashing good article! In Moral Theology by Fr Jo...

2009-07-03T10:50:43.297-07:00

Smashing good article!

In Moral Theology by Fr Jone he says in it that looking at ones on covered parts of a body for no specific reason (such as washing, health reasons etc) is at least s venial sin. (I don't have the book with me so I cant cite the pages)

Is your book on distributism going to share this writing style?